The Berlin Wall: Why wasn’t I, as an East German permitted to go west if I wanted to? Why were families separated during the entire thing? Was it to keep the hopeless western Germans from emigrating to the East?
The Holodomor: Why did the Soviet Union commit genocide against its own citizens?
Freedom of speech: Why would the KGB be on my ass if I said anything against the State? Why wasn’t the media critical of the government? Why was Chornobyl covered up?
Why did the USSR destabilize Afghanistan?: Wasn’t this an act of imperialism? Or were they trying to liberate the poor wittle Afghani children by killing them using cruel weapons like butterfly mines? Did the USSR really need to go in there
Why do literally all Eastern European countries hate Soviet rule? Had they loved it, they surely would’ve kept the policies of the USSR, right? Or is the CIA involved here too?
North Korea: Let’s not even talk about them…
Why was state enforced atheism a thing in the USSR? I am an atheist. However, I still believe that everyone should have the right to have faith in whatever institutions that they seem fit. Is that dumb? Yes. Should the state get to decide what’s dumb and not? No.
China: Why is the great firewall a thing? Why do they refuse to allow their citizens to connect to the wider world?
Now, someone here is most definitely going to come up with the “but the US did XYZ” argument. And I wouldn’t disagree there. However, this isn’t a competition of “who’s the bigger asshole”. Glorifying any states or institutions is plain dumb. As a socialist, I want to do good for the people of the world. I can’t do good if I ignore the atrocities committed by the people “on my team”.
Preventing brain drain and smugglers. Prices were fixed in the East and smugglers would buy on the cheap in the East and sell for a profit in the West. Berlin should have never been divided in two in the first place, this was proposed by the the western powers to have a foothold for counter-revolutionary activity. It was their ploy, and their ludicrous plans. https://en.prolewiki.org/wiki/Anti-Fascist_Protection_Rampart
Freedom of speech is a recent asinine invention. Did they have freedom of speech during the Terror? No, because you need to control propaganda and counter-revolutionary activity. You could protest for tons of things in the USSR btw, but you couldn’t protest to call for the dissolution of the socialist system. Pretty reasonable.
Afghanistan
The legitimate government of Afghanistan asked the USSR for help against the Mujahideen funded by the CIA. The goal of the US was to draw the USSR in a long proxy war, putting Afghans at risk, to drain their military resources. https://en.prolewiki.org/wiki/Soviet_intervention_in_Afghanistan
If you want to go there the US was the one who had no reason to be there, once again meddling into another country’s affairs. They also committed the Highway of Death massacre. I don’t get why you care so much about what a country that has not existed for 30 years did some 50 years ago when you have a very much alive and very much barbaric country doing worse right now.
Eastern Europe hates USSR
They don’t. I don’t know where you get your news but you should look for another source.
The countries that see more benefit than harm were the countries that were mostly left out. A developing country will have unequal development so this isn’t surprising. Turkmenistan represented 3 million inhabitants out of almost 300 million. You also have to take into account where these countries came from before the revolution but I digress.
North Korea
Why are you refusing to talk about them? Go ahead. Talk about them. I know what you’re gonna say. You’re gonna say the exact same thing your “progressive” media of choice is saying about the DPRK. What your school says about the DPRK. What TV says about the DPRK. Things we’ve heard hundreds of times before that we used to believe too (I hope you don’t think we used to live under a rock before we emerged as communists) until we actually started reading source material about the DPRK and realized it’s actually not at all like the media says it is.
state atheism
who cares seriously. Plenty of people don’t live in secular countries but they themselves are atheists or non-practicing and they don’t whine half as much as you do about it. We have communists on this platform living in officially Muslim countries like Indonesia or Iran and they don’t give a shit about it. Seems like the most random thing to complain about. Just reeks of western privilege. Do you think people in Tsarist Russia had a choice to be atheist? How do you think that would fare for you when the Field Marshal came by your village to investigate potential revolutionary activities and he, as a faithful Orthodox Christian, learned you hadn’t been in church for a month or more. Get some perspective.
Great firewall
So that they could develop their own tech solutions. I don’t see what’s so difficult about it. Oh, the horror, China does not have access to shitty braindead tiktoks, we need to bring them freedom in the form of ICBMs! Seriously, who gives a shit. Have you asked the Chinese what they think of the firewall? They don’t care. They love their local tech solutions, their own social media, and the laws surrounding it. They get a VPN if they want to see whatever the fuck racist crackers are saying about them and COVID-19 conspiracy theories. And then they realize, damn we have it good in China.
I can’t do good if I ignore the atrocities committed by the people “on my team”.
So instead of “ignoring the atrocities on your team” (in your words), you just go straight for state department propaganda. But I don’t think anyone here is under any illusions you’re on our team.
You seem somewhat reasonable, so I hope you can realize these two things: - you can’t bring up anything we haven’t heard before and - everything you were taught about communism is wrong; we don’t love Stalin for killing Ukrainians, we simply have evidence to show that it did not happen like you believe it did. These are two very different things.
Bruh… Seriously? You talk about western propaganda when you link an article that references a website called “StalinSociety”? Come on now…
They don’t.
Uhhh I was referencing Soviet occupied countries like Poland, East Germany, Hungary, Czechia, etc.
Why are you refusing to talk about them? Go ahead. Talk about them
Uggh cuz it’s fkin obvious, that’s why. Cult leader, no democracy, public executions (source being North Korean asylum seekers. Oh, but they must be western propaganda too, amirite?), suppression of freedom of speech, suppression of freedom of movement, etc.
who cares serious
See? That’s your problem. “They fucked athiests, so we fuck them back”. You’re just like them. I am safe near you right now because I agree with you. What if I don’t? Religion plays a major role in people’s identities. That’s dumb, sure. But that doesn’t harm you in any way. Sure, tax the churches. Do all that. However, if someone wants to practice their religion, let them be.
So that they could develop their own tech solutions. I don’t see what’s so difficult about it. Oh, the horror, China does not have access to shitty braindead tiktoks, we need to bring them freedom in the form of ICBMs! Seriously, who gives a shit. Have you asked the Chinese what they think of the firewall? They don’t care. They love their local tech solutions, their own social media, and the laws surrounding it. They get a VPN if they want to see whatever the fuck racist crackers are saying about them and COVID-19 conspiracy theories. And then they realize, damn we have it good in China.
So the internet is just for braindead tiktoks? Is it not for free media that criticizes the government? Is it not for ideas outside the official governmental/societal narrative? Do economically protectionist policies justify suppressing an individuals right to free information/education? I can access Chinese socialism and its workings from official chinese sources freely. Can a Chinese individual do the same via Google without a VPN? I can have e2ee conversations with my friends via Signal (which has no privacy issues too) about communist ideals. Can a Chinese individual say “Fuck the CCP and Jinping the Pooh” on Signal? No, cuz Signal (an open sourced application) is banned in China.
There are people a lot more capable of answering your questions here than me, but I want to link a few videos about the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea:
My Brothers and Sisters in the North - A documentary about the lives of people in the DPRK done by a South Korean-German woman that gave up her South Korean citizenship to film it.
Loyal Citizens of Pyongyang in Seoul - A interview with 2 North Koreans living in Seoul that aren’t allowed to go back to the North, despite wanting to.
COREIA DO NORTE: LUCAS RUBIO - This is a recent interview in a brazilian podcast with Lucas Rubio, a researcher about the DPRK where he talks about the country, ranging from the war to his personal experience visiting it. The whole episode is in portuguese but from the little bit that I tested, the automatic translation to english is decent enough, although it misses a few things and get some names wrong.
Fair. Here r some arguments for you:
Now, someone here is most definitely going to come up with the “but the US did XYZ” argument. And I wouldn’t disagree there. However, this isn’t a competition of “who’s the bigger asshole”. Glorifying any states or institutions is plain dumb. As a socialist, I want to do good for the people of the world. I can’t do good if I ignore the atrocities committed by the people “on my team”.
Preventing brain drain and smugglers. Prices were fixed in the East and smugglers would buy on the cheap in the East and sell for a profit in the West. Berlin should have never been divided in two in the first place, this was proposed by the the western powers to have a foothold for counter-revolutionary activity. It was their ploy, and their ludicrous plans. https://en.prolewiki.org/wiki/Anti-Fascist_Protection_Rampart
see this page https://en.prolewiki.org/wiki/Holodomor and the one linked at the top there as well.
Freedom of speech is a recent asinine invention. Did they have freedom of speech during the Terror? No, because you need to control propaganda and counter-revolutionary activity. You could protest for tons of things in the USSR btw, but you couldn’t protest to call for the dissolution of the socialist system. Pretty reasonable.
The legitimate government of Afghanistan asked the USSR for help against the Mujahideen funded by the CIA. The goal of the US was to draw the USSR in a long proxy war, putting Afghans at risk, to drain their military resources. https://en.prolewiki.org/wiki/Soviet_intervention_in_Afghanistan
If you want to go there the US was the one who had no reason to be there, once again meddling into another country’s affairs. They also committed the Highway of Death massacre. I don’t get why you care so much about what a country that has not existed for 30 years did some 50 years ago when you have a very much alive and very much barbaric country doing worse right now.
They don’t. I don’t know where you get your news but you should look for another source.
The countries that see more benefit than harm were the countries that were mostly left out. A developing country will have unequal development so this isn’t surprising. Turkmenistan represented 3 million inhabitants out of almost 300 million. You also have to take into account where these countries came from before the revolution but I digress.
Why are you refusing to talk about them? Go ahead. Talk about them. I know what you’re gonna say. You’re gonna say the exact same thing your “progressive” media of choice is saying about the DPRK. What your school says about the DPRK. What TV says about the DPRK. Things we’ve heard hundreds of times before that we used to believe too (I hope you don’t think we used to live under a rock before we emerged as communists) until we actually started reading source material about the DPRK and realized it’s actually not at all like the media says it is.
who cares seriously. Plenty of people don’t live in secular countries but they themselves are atheists or non-practicing and they don’t whine half as much as you do about it. We have communists on this platform living in officially Muslim countries like Indonesia or Iran and they don’t give a shit about it. Seems like the most random thing to complain about. Just reeks of western privilege. Do you think people in Tsarist Russia had a choice to be atheist? How do you think that would fare for you when the Field Marshal came by your village to investigate potential revolutionary activities and he, as a faithful Orthodox Christian, learned you hadn’t been in church for a month or more. Get some perspective.
So that they could develop their own tech solutions. I don’t see what’s so difficult about it. Oh, the horror, China does not have access to shitty braindead tiktoks, we need to bring them freedom in the form of ICBMs! Seriously, who gives a shit. Have you asked the Chinese what they think of the firewall? They don’t care. They love their local tech solutions, their own social media, and the laws surrounding it. They get a VPN if they want to see whatever the fuck racist crackers are saying about them and COVID-19 conspiracy theories. And then they realize, damn we have it good in China.
So instead of “ignoring the atrocities on your team” (in your words), you just go straight for state department propaganda. But I don’t think anyone here is under any illusions you’re on our team.
You seem somewhat reasonable, so I hope you can realize these two things: - you can’t bring up anything we haven’t heard before and - everything you were taught about communism is wrong; we don’t love Stalin for killing Ukrainians, we simply have evidence to show that it did not happen like you believe it did. These are two very different things.
OP said Eastern Europe. Probably, Hungary, Romania, Poland, etc.
So the state should have control over who goes out of the country and who doesn’t? Freedom of movement is a human right. You know that, right?
Bruh… Seriously? You talk about western propaganda when you link an article that references a website called “StalinSociety”? Come on now…
Uhhh I was referencing Soviet occupied countries like Poland, East Germany, Hungary, Czechia, etc.
Uggh cuz it’s fkin obvious, that’s why. Cult leader, no democracy, public executions (source being North Korean asylum seekers. Oh, but they must be western propaganda too, amirite?), suppression of freedom of speech, suppression of freedom of movement, etc.
See? That’s your problem. “They fucked athiests, so we fuck them back”. You’re just like them. I am safe near you right now because I agree with you. What if I don’t? Religion plays a major role in people’s identities. That’s dumb, sure. But that doesn’t harm you in any way. Sure, tax the churches. Do all that. However, if someone wants to practice their religion, let them be.
So the internet is just for braindead tiktoks? Is it not for free media that criticizes the government? Is it not for ideas outside the official governmental/societal narrative? Do economically protectionist policies justify suppressing an individuals right to free information/education? I can access Chinese socialism and its workings from official chinese sources freely. Can a Chinese individual do the same via Google without a VPN? I can have e2ee conversations with my friends via Signal (which has no privacy issues too) about communist ideals. Can a Chinese individual say “Fuck the CCP and Jinping the Pooh” on Signal? No, cuz Signal (an open sourced application) is banned in China.
My mistake, I can see now your liberalism is terminal. The only thing we can do is pull the plug. But before I do, allow me this one pleasure:
Source?
Source?
Source?
Source?
Source?
Source?
Source?
Source?
Source?
Source?
There are people a lot more capable of answering your questions here than me, but I want to link a few videos about the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea:
My Brothers and Sisters in the North - A documentary about the lives of people in the DPRK done by a South Korean-German woman that gave up her South Korean citizenship to film it.
Loyal Citizens of Pyongyang in Seoul - A interview with 2 North Koreans living in Seoul that aren’t allowed to go back to the North, despite wanting to.
We Went to North Korea To Get A Haircut - A video from the channel Boy Boy demistifying some stuff by actually going to the DPRK.
COREIA DO NORTE: LUCAS RUBIO - This is a recent interview in a brazilian podcast with Lucas Rubio, a researcher about the DPRK where he talks about the country, ranging from the war to his personal experience visiting it. The whole episode is in portuguese but from the little bit that I tested, the automatic translation to english is decent enough, although it misses a few things and get some names wrong.